Rüdiger Ziehl interview: What's next for giant killers Saarbrücken?

On Friday, 1. FC Saarbrücken started their 2024/25 campaign with a 1-0 win at 1860 Munich. In the Rüdiger Ziehl interview, the Saarbrücken head coach spoke to World Soccer Talk about what’s next for his giant-killing team, as well as his opinions on German soccer, as well as comparisons to the English game.

Rüdiger Ziehl took over 1. FC Saarbrücken at the start of the 2021/22 season. The team finished the 2022/23 season in fifth place. In 2023/24 the team agonizingly missed out on third place in the promotion play-offs by three points but reached the semi-finals of the DFB Pokal after knocking out Bayern Munich, Eintracht Frankfurt, and Borussia Mönchengladbach.

Rüdiger Ziehl interview

McFadyean: You played with VfL Wolfsburg II in your last two seasons and in the third tier. In England, the second teams, under-23s or under-21s, play in a separate league, which is a closed-door league. Do you think it makes sense for second teams to be playing in a professional third tier?

Ziehl: “In my view, it makes sense. That way you have real competition for the young players. If you only play against other under-23s or under-21s, you don’t have the same pressure. When you play in the third or fourth tier, you’re playing against 30-year-olds, experienced players, which is far better for the young players and in front of big crowds. It’s the best possible situation. Not every player is ready to make the jump from the U19s to the Bundesliga.”

McFadyean: As a club manager you manage a wide range of aspects of the club. Is it much more expensive for a club to have a team in the fourth or third tier?

Ziehl: “There is a huge jump from the fourth, the Regionalliga to the third, the Dritte Liga, in terms of the costs for security, transport, players, and salaries but it is worthwhile in terms of media income as the games are shown on Magenta Sports TV in Germany. You have big clubs like 1860 Munich, and Dynamo Dresden in the third division but of course, you also have to travel much further which brings big costs with it.”

McFadyean: When you look at it, few of the players from Borussia Dortmund U19s or U23s make it into the first team. In the current squad, there is only one (Ole Pohlmann). Can you explain why it is that the young players don’t make it?

Ziehl: “It’s much easier to start a career in the Bundesliga with a club that is a bit smaller, where players are not on the top level, say Augsburg or Heidenheim, rather than competing at Dortmund or Bayern where the players are world-class. That is a step not many players can make directly.

“It’s a big jump for young players from the U19 or U23 to the Bundesliga. It’s better to start in the second tier or at a smaller Bundesliga side.”

McFadyean: Let’s talk about your opponents on Tuesday; 1 FC Kaiserslautern. In 1998, they made the astonishing march from the 2 Bundesliga to the first Bundesliga title under Otto Rehagel. You played there then with Miroslav Klose, Germany’s all-time leading scorer. What are Rehagel and Miro’s ‘X Factor’?

Ziehl: “Miro is a really good guy. He worked very hard for his success but everybody liked him too, he just got better and better. He started his career in Kaiserslautern and just went on up from there, an inspirational career. Otto’s achievements speak for themselves, European Champion, Meister and European Cup winner with Werder Bremen and much more. He is one of the greats.”

McFadyean: A further player you played with at Kaiserslautern is France legend Youri Djorkaeff. What was special about Youri?

Ziehl: “He was, at this time, totally outstanding, just a perfect player. To see him in Kaiserslautern and train with him was intense. He won the World Cup in 1998. It was incredible to be around such a player in Kaiserslautern.”

McFadyean: The recently deceased Andreas Brehme was your coach at Kaiserslautern, a player who incorporated the values of a great generation of German footballers; discipline, commitment, power, strength, and vision. What was unique about Andy as a footballer and a person? It’s a big loss for German football.

Ziehl: “I actually saw Andy just a year ago, Andy was an outstanding person, such a good player, far too young to pass on for sure.

“The difference with players like Hans-Peter Briegel, Andreas Brehme, Felix Magath, Dietmar Jakobs, or Kalle Rummenigge was that these players had a great mentality, the temperament in the team, we fought and had a great spirit. Andy Brehme was exactly such a player. He fought until the end in every game.”

McFadyean: Some in Germany were unhappy, in spite of the improvements at Euro 2024. What do you think has been missing for the DFB team since 2014?

Ziehl: “It’s normal in some ways that there’s a transition to a new generation of players, but we haven’t seen the same quality. They have many good individual players, but not together for some reason in the last few years.” 

McFadyean: Let’s talk about 1. FC Kaiserslautern. You were in the second team when Otto Rehagel, who also led the Greece team to the 2004 European Championship title, and took them from the second Bundesliga to the Meisterschaft. What was so special about that team?

Ziehl: “The year before they were relegated for the first time in the history of this club, but the team stayed together. They made a good start and started winning games, but everyone thought by November and December, it was over. But they kept it up, many wins in extra time, with goals in the 95th or 97th minute, and in the end, they were champions. It was the first time, and I think, it was the last time that a promoted side won the title, probably anywhere in the world.

“Our club is a sleeping giant, every club needs a big investor, and the fans want 2. Bundesliga.”

McFadyean: Saarbrücken has had really difficult times in the last 20 years or so, spending much of the time in the second or third tiers in spite of being the only big club in the region. Would you welcome a system like in England where large investors can buy the club and take it back into the top tier or Europe? Or do you think it’s better to have a member-owned club, like in Germany?

Ziehl: “A mixed system is the right option, every club needs an investor because it doesn’t work without one, but they don’t have to have the majority but it’s very difficult financially without one. In particular, in the third tier, the costs are high, that’s why every club wants to get to the second league because of TV money also, and bigger gates. In general, I am for the 50+1 however.” 

McFadyean: What makes 1. FC Saarbrücken unique as a club?

Ziehl: “It’s a historic club with a big history, the people here really live it, the fans are incredibly passionate. They are great fans. But playing in the fourth league, and now in the third tier, it’s a bit difficult for the region. There is a unique atmosphere here, the club is a real sleeping giant. The fans want more.”

McFadyean: In October 2023, after losing to Rot-Weiss Essen with the side in 15th, you said: “If people are not happy with me I will let someone else take over.” But you are still here in spite of being far off a promotion place. Has the cup saved your season?

Ziehl: “In the league, we have only six losses. That’s pretty good, but we need more wins. The whole season we have had many chances, but we just don’t score enough goals, and that’s why we are in 10th place right now. In the cup games, we defended pretty well and we had only two or three chances but we took them. That’s the big difference. The team showed in every game that we can defend as a team, we can fight as a team, with a great mentality, a great spirit, and I think this is the big difference between the cup games and the league games. We score and we fight harder. The promotion to the 2. Bundesliga is what we want.

“Normally when you play 100 times against Bayern Munich you only win once. We won.” 

McFadyean: Your profile picture shows you in front of the terrace, with the pyros, and the flags and intense fan scene. Talk to me about the feeling when you knocked Bayern München out of the Pokal last season. It must have been mind-blowing?

Ziehl: “Normally, when you play 100 times, you only win one game like that one, and this was the moment to win this game against Bayern München.

“Before the game, everybody was talking about the game like. Hopefully we have a good game against Bayern Munich and lose only three or four zero. After 96 minutes nobody had anything left in the tank, and yet we scored the goal. The whole stadium exploded. Then that goal and the whole stadium, the whole city exploded, a night to remember, yes.” 

McFadyean: Among the players who are making a difference this season is former Bradford City AFC striker Kai Brünker who is the lead scorer with 14 goals. Could you see yourself one day making your way to the English club or further afield like the MLS?

Ziehl: “Of course managing a club in England is always attractive. You only need to look at the success of Daniel Farke or what Jürgen Klopp did at Liverpool to see what is possible. I am a Manchester City fan and I follow the league there. Who knows what comes in the future? For now, we have the season ahead and promotion is our focus.”

As a professional footballer, Ziehl played in defensive midfield between 1996-2010 with FK Pirmansens, 1 FC Kaiserslautern, Wehen Wiesbaden, Tus Koblenz, and VFL Wolfsburg II, scoring 11 goals. He won the Regionaliga-Nord (fourth tier) title with Wolfsburg II in the 18/19 season.

Born in Zweibrücken, the former midfielder, who also played as a defender, moved to 1. FC Kaiserslautern in 1996, from where he joined SV Wehen Wiesbaden of the Regionalliga-Süd, the fourth-highest league in 2002. In the 2004/5 season, he moved to TuS Koblenz in the same league, remaining until 2009.

For the 2009/10 season, he moved to VfL Wolfsburg II in the fourth tier, where he ended his career in 2011. He played three hundred and twenty-three games, 66 of them in the 2nd Bundesliga, and 3 in the Bundesliga for 1 FC Kaiserslautern.

After earning the UEFA Pro Coaching Badge, he began the 2012/13 season as an assistant to Lorenz-Günther Köstner at VFL Wolfsburg II. Later that season, he took over as head coach and remained with the club until 2020. In the 20/21 season, he took over as head coach at 3. Liga club TSV Havelse where the club finished in eleventh.

Photo: IMAGO / MIS